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Assisted dying bill - special series #16: The Bill makes its debut in the House of Lords - Parliament Matters podcast, Episode 106

13 Sep 2025

As Peers embark on a marathon two-day Second Reading debate on the Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill – the measure that would legalise assisted dying in England and Wales – we are joined by former Clerk of the Parliaments, Sir David Beamish, to decode the drama. With more than two hundred members of the House of Lords lining up to speak, Sir David explains why, despite the intensity of the arguments, no one expects the Bill to be rejected at this stage. Instead, the real fight will come later, after Peers get into the clause-by-clause detail and see what defects can be remedied.

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We look ahead to the second half of the Second Reading debate next week to unpack the procedural chess moves. One amendment calls for a special select committee to examine the issue in depth, but there’s a risk that such a referral – while attractive in principle – would delay progress and could be seen as an attempt to derail the bill altogether. We also discuss a constitutional concern: the bill’s heavy use of delegated legislation, including “Henry VIII powers” allowing ministers to amend primary legislation by delegated legislation which is subject to less parliamentary scrutiny. Critical reports from the Delegated Powers and Constitution Committees have already put ministers on notice, and even the bill’s sponsor, Lord Falconer, concedes that some amendments will be unavoidable.

It has been a tumultuous political week, which has seen the departure of Deputy Prime Minister Angela Rayner, and Britain’s Ambassador to Washington, Lord Mandelson, as well as a major ministerial reshuffle. Ruth and Mark look at the implications for Parliament. Will Lord Mandelson return to the House of Lords? Will the churn amongst ministers and the appointment of a new generation of MPs to posts in government disrupt the scrutiny of legislation and the work of select committees? And amidst increasing mutterings against Sir Keir Starmer, how might backbench Labour discontent manifest itself in the House of Commons?

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Our guest

Sir David Beamish. ©

Sir David Beamish KCB

Sir David Beamish served as the Clerk of the Parliaments, the most senior official in the House of Lords, from 2011 to 2017. During his parliamentary career he held several key roles, including Clerk of the Journals, Clerk of Committees and Clerk of the Overseas Office. From 1983 to 1986, David was seconded to the Cabinet Office, where he served as Private Secretary to the Leader of the House of Lords and Government Chief Whip. He was knighted in 2017 for parliamentary service. He was joint editor, with Donald Shell, ofThe House of Lords at Work, published by Oxford University Press in 1993. Following his retirement he was appointed as an honorary Senior Research Associate of the Constitution Unit at UCL. He is the Chair of the Southwark Diocesan Board of Finance, an Honorary Steward at Westminster Abbey, and Vice-Chair of the Parochial Church Council of the parish of St Barnabas, Dulwich. David was the winner of BBC Mastermind in 1988, with his specialist subject being the life and times of Nancy Astor.

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Transcript

Please note, this transcript is automatically generated. There may consequently be minor errors and the text is not formatted according to our style guide. If you wish to reference or cite the transcript copy below, please first check against the audio version above.

Intro: [00:00:00] You are listening to Parliament Matters, a Hansard Society production supported by the Joseph Rowntree Charitable Trust. Learn more at hansardsociety.org.uk/pm.

Ruth Fox: Welcome to Parliament Matters, the podcast about the institution at the heart of our democracy, Parliament itself. I'm Ruth Fox.

Mark D'Arcy: And i'm Mark D'Arcy.

Ruth Fox: The bill to legalise assisted dying in England and Wales debuts in the House of Lords. We are joined by expert Lords watcher, Sir David Beamish, to analyse how peers received it, and what happens next.

Mark D'Arcy: And its chaos and churn at the top level of government as a wave of ministerial changes juts through Westminster.

Ruth Fox: But how will all this resound in Parliament and what might it mean for Keir Starmer?

Mark D'Arcy: Right, so here we are. The House of Lords has been getting its teeth into [00:01:00] the assisted dying bill, the Terminally Ill Adults End of Life Bill to give it its full title, which would legalise assisted dying in England and Wales. This is the second reading debate. Confusing really because it's the first actual debate they've had in it.

But that's parliamentary jargon for you. And their Lordships have a two day debate now scheduled because about 200 of them want to speak on this subject. The classic Lord syndrome of everything has been said, but not everybody has yet said it, I think.

And Ruth and I are joined today by Sir David Beamish, former clerk of the Parliaments, the Chief Clerk to the House of Lords. And before that, he was even secretary to the Chief Whip in the House of Lords as well. So someone who is an expert chamber watcher, someone with incredible experience of the workings of the upper house. So David, welcome to the pod, first of all. What have you made so far of the debate? Because there are all sorts of interesting tactical things going on here around various motions and amendments that have been put down.

But what's your general impression first of all, of the atmospherics?

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