The sentencing guidelines row: A product of poor law-making? - Parliament Matters podcast, Episode 86

News

The sentencing guidelines row: A product of poor law-making? - Parliament Matters podcast, Episode 86

4 Apr 2025

The Government has published “emergency legislation” to block new sentencing guidelines. But why does Parliament have limited oversight of the Sentencing Council? Has heavy handed policing interfered with the work of an MP? What do disabled MPs make of Westminster - the building and the procedures? And after a 25-hour speech brought the US Senate to a halt, could it ever happen at Westminster?

LISTEN

The Government has published “emergency legislation” — the Sentencing Guidelines (Pre-sentence Reports) Bill — to block new guidelines coming into effect that single out differential treatment of ethnic minority offenders when ordering pre-sentencing reports. These reports would then be used by judges to make decisions on sentencing. Critics are calling it a case of “two-tier justice.” The Lord Chancellor Shabana Mahmood says there’s “insufficient democratic oversight” of how the Sentencing Council operates.

In this episode, Ruth and Mark examine Parliament’s limited ability to scrutinise Sentencing Council guidelines — why that’s the case, how it could have been different, and why successive governments have failed to address it. They trace the issue back to a 2009 “Christmas Tree” law that had so many policy baubles it was difficult to scrutinise, an enduring trend of outsourcing decision-making to arms-length bodies, and a culture of “perma-crisis” that has defined UK politics for over 15 years.

Also in this episode: Chancellor Rachel Reeves’ big moment before the Treasury Committee is eclipsed by President Trump’s shock international tariff announcement. At the Transport Committee, Heathrow’s Chief Executive issues a full apology for the massive flight disruption caused by a power station fire that brought the Airport to a halt. Meanwhile, MPs with disabilities and health conditions testify before the Commons Modernisation Committee about the challenges they face navigating Westminster - the building and the procedures.

Plus: Did Hertfordshire Police cross a constitutional line by warning former Deputy Prime Minister Oliver Dowden MP not to look into the arrest of two of his constituents over “disparaging comments” they made in their child’s school WhatsApp group? Ruth and Mark consider how other cases involving vexatious constituents have been handled by MPs and how the issues engage parliamentary privilege.

After Cory Booker’s 25-hour speech in the US Senate, could a filibuster ever happen in Westminster? (Spoiler: absolutely not.) And should MPs be lobbying foreign governments to build airports when they oppose them here in the UK?

← Back to Parliament Matters homepage

Listen on our YouTube channel (captioned)

Subscribe to our YouTube channel

Resources

House of Commons

Sentencing Guidelines (Pre-sentence Reports) Bill

Sentencing Council

Sentencing guidelines: Imposition of community and custodial sentences

House of Commons Treasury Select Committee

Spring Statement 2025 (2 April 2025): Rt Hon Rachel Reeves MP (Chancellor of the Exchequer at HM Treasury), Louise Tinsley (HM Treasury official), and William MacFarlane (HM Treasury official)
- Oral evidence transcript and video recording
Spring Statement 2025 (1 April 2025): Paul Johnson (Institute for Fiscal Studies), Dr Jumana Saleheen (Vanguard Asset Management), and Ruth Curtice (Resolution Foundation)
- Oral evidence transcript, video recording 1, and video recording 2

House of Commons Modernisation Committee

Access to the House of Commons and its procedures (1 April 2025): Robert Halfon, Dr Marie Tidball MP, Sarah Bool MP, Steve Darling MP, and Marsha De Cordova MP.
- Video recording

CSPAN

United States Senate Session, 31 March 2025: Senator Cory Booker (D-NJ) delivers the longest-ever Senate floor speech

Transcript

Please note, this transcript is automatically generated. There may consequently be minor errors and the text is not formatted according to our style guide. If you wish to reference or cite the transcript copy below, please first check against the audio version above.

Intro: [00:00:00] You are listening to Parliament Matters, A Hansard Society Production supported by the Joseph Rowntree Charitable Trust. Learn more at hansardsociety.org.uk/pm..

Ruth Fox: Welcome to Parliament Matters, the podcast about the institution at the heart of our democracy, Parliament itself. I'm Ruth Fox.

Mark D'Arcy: And I'm Mark D'Arcy. And coming up in this week's episode.

Ruth Fox: The sentencing mess. How the government got into a tangle about new criminal sentencing guidelines and how it plans to untangle it.

Mark D'Arcy: A matter of privilege. Is heavy handed policing interfering in the work of MPs?

Ruth Fox: And after a 25 hour speech brought the US Senate to a halt, could it ever happen at Westminster?

Mark D'Arcy: And Ruth, let's begin by talking about, as you described it, the sentencing mess. The Sentencing Council, the independent arms length body, [00:01:00] which to some extent has had outsourced to it the policy on how many years tariff there should be for a particular offender who's committed a particular crime, all sorts of issues of sentencing procedure, has basically landed the government in a very difficult position.

It's supposed to be an arm's length body, but it's now recommended something that's very, very uncomfortable for a government.

Ruth Fox: Yes. So what essentially it's done, uh, it has to consult on its guidelines, uh, periodically it held its consultation at the end of 2023, beginning of 2024. At the time, it was sort of passed over politically, both by the government and, and by the opposition.

Nobody really raised any questions about it.

Mark D'Arcy: Because this surfaced actually when the conservatives were still in government.

Ruth Fox: Yes.

Use the links below to subscribe to the Hansard Society's Parliament Matters podcast on your preferred app, or search for 'Parliament Matters' on whichever podcasting service you use. If you are unable to find our podcast, please email us here.

Apple

YouTube Podcasts

Spotify

More ways to subscribe

Parliament Matters homepage

Latest / Highlights

News / Parliament Matters Bulletin: What’s coming up in Parliament this week? 19-23 May 2025

Stella Creasy MP and Richard Tice MP will lead a backbench debate on the EU–UK summit. The Foreign Affairs Committee will hold a joint session with its Ukrainian counterpart on Russian misinformation. MPs will question the Defence Secretary, Chancellor of the Exchequer and Northern Ireland Secretary. Scrutiny of seven Government bills will continue in both Houses. Debate topics in the Commons will include an e-petition on transgender self-identification, and support for local pubs. On the Committee corridor, highlights include sessions on the security of undersea cables and the accessibility of the parliamentary estate. Michael Gove will be formally introduced to the House of Lords as its newest member.

Submissions / Status and rights of independent MPs in Parliament – Our evidence to the House of Commons Procedure Committee

Our evidence on the status and rights of independent MPs has been published by the House of Commons Procedure Committee. Our submission summarises the direct and indirect references to political parties in the Standing Orders and whether they might apply to groupings of independent MPs, analyses whether small parties and independent groupings face disadvantages, particularly in relation to committee membership, and considers whether parliamentary publications should distinguish between the many different kinds of independent MP.

Blog / The Planning and Infrastructure Bill: What happens when detail is deferred?

The Hansard Society has long raised concerns about the Government's increasing tendency to present undeveloped legislation that lacks detailed policy and grants ministers broad delegated powers to fill in the gaps later. This practice undermines effective parliamentary scrutiny, by preventing MPs and Peers from fully assessing how powers may be used, (or misused), in the future. The weak system for overseeing delegated legislation—especially in the Commons—exacerbates the problem. Several powers in the Planning and Infrastructure Bill currently before Parliament highlight these ongoing issues.

News / Assisted dying bill: Special series #12 - Parliament Matters podcast, Episode 93

Is Kim Leadbeater's Assisted Dying Bill now "over the hump?" The Bill's supporters got it though its first day of Report Stage consideration in the House of Commons unscathed, with comfortable majorities in every vote. So, with debate on the most contentious set of amendments disposed of, will it now coast through its remaining scrutiny days in the Commons? Please help us by completing our Listener Survey. It will only take a few minutes.

Submissions / Evidence to the House of Commons Modernisation Committee: Priorities and strategic aims

In response to the Modernisation Committee's call for views on 17 October 2024, we submitted evidence outlining key areas we believe the Committee should prioritise. Our submission recommended a focus on: strengthening legislative scrutiny, with particular emphasis on reforming the delegated legislation system; enhancing financial scrutiny, especially in relation to the Budget and the Estimates; addressing strategic gaps in parliamentary scrutiny; making more effective use of parliamentary time; and reviewing the Standing Orders, language and rituals of the House of Commons.