Parliament’s spying scandal: Why was the China case dropped? - Parliament Matters podcast, Episode 110

News

Parliament’s spying scandal: Why was the China case dropped? - Parliament Matters podcast, Episode 110

17 Oct 2025

It’s been a tumultuous week in Westminster, with three ministerial statements on the China spying case and fresh questions about the collapse of charges against two alleged spies. We are joined by Cambridge public law expert Professor Mark Elliott to untangle the legal and political fallout, from espionage claims inside MPs’ offices to confusion over whether China was ever designated an “enemy state.” We also explore looming government challenges — the Budget, Afghan data leak, local election setbacks — and the membership of the new Select Committee to consider the assisted dying legislation in the House of Lords.

Please help us by completing our Listener Survey. It will only take a few minutes.

LISTEN

It’s been an extraordinary week in Westminster, with three separate ministerial statements to the Commons on the China spying case. To make sense of the confusion, Ruth and Mark are joined by Professor Mark Elliott, public law expert from Cambridge University, to unpack the sudden collapse of the prosecution against two alleged spies.

Newly released government witness statements revealed details about the claims of espionage inside MPs’ offices, yet the case was abruptly dropped amid tangled legal arguments over whether the Government had ever formally designated China as an “enemy state.”

So, what really happened? Was this a legal failure or a political fix to avoid a diplomatic crisis? And with the Joint Committee on the National Security Strategy now launching an inquiry, where does the story go next?

Plus, as the parliamentary season re-opens after the party conference break, Ruth and Mark look at the elephant traps ahead for the Government, including the Budget (Mark wonders why anyone in the Government thinks it is a good idea to “live-brainstorm” tax raising ideas), the lingering row over the Afghan data leak and superinjunction, the long-promised vote about the future of multi-billion pound restoration and renewal of Parliament and the steady drip of terrible local election results chipping away at Labour morale.

And finally, the latest developments on the assisted dying legislation which is now facing scrutiny by a special Lords select committee. We go through the membership and the balance of opinion on what could be a very important body. If the subsequent debates on the bill over-run, Ministers could face a legislative logjam in the Upper House.

← Back to Parliament Matters homepage

Listen on our YouTube channel (captioned)

Subscribe to our YouTube channel

Our guest

Professor Mark Elliott

Professor Mark Elliott

Mark is Professor of Public Law at the University of Cambridge and a Fellow of St Catharine’s College, Cambridge. He teaches and writes about constitutional and administrative law. He was Specialist Legal Adviser to the House of Lords Select Committee on the Constitution from 2015 to 2019, advising the committee on legal aspects of its inquiries and analysing the constitutional implications of public bills. He was Chair of the Cambridge Law Faculty from 2019 to 2024 and is a member of the Constitution Society’s UK Constitution Monitoring Group. He has written widely about many aspects of public and constitutional law, including as author of the popular but authoritative blog Public Law for Everyone and as author and co-author of many influential publications.

Resources

Professor Mark Elliott, Public Law for Everyone blog

“Cock-up or conspiracy? The Security Minister’s statement on the China espionage case”, 13 October 2025
"No winners in the China espionage blame game: Six outstanding questions for prosecutors and ministers", 16 October 2025

Transcript

Please note, this transcript is automatically generated. There may consequently be minor errors and the text is not formatted according to our style guide. If you wish to reference or cite the transcript copy below, please first check against the audio version above.

Intro: [00:00:00] You are listening to Parliament Matters, a Hansard Society production supported by the Joseph Rowntree Charitable Trust. Learn more at hansardsociety.org.uk/pm.

Ruth Fox: Welcome to Parliament Matters, the podcast about the institution at the heart of our democracy, Parliament itself. I'm Ruth Fox.

Mark D'Arcy: And I'm Mark D'Arcy. And coming up this week.

Ruth Fox: The strange case of the parliamentary spying charges that were abruptly dropped last month. Why? And what happens now?

Mark D'Arcy: What are the elephant traps ahead in the new parliamentary season?

They don't seem to need much camouflage for ministers to fall into them.

Ruth Fox: And is the assisted dying bill facing a legislative logjam?

Mark D'Arcy: But first, Parliament's got China on its mind this week with three ministerial statements in four days, including one by the Prime Minister. As [00:01:00] controversy rages over the abrupt dropping of those spying charges against two alleged Chinese agents, one of whom worked within the House of Commons.

Ruth Fox: Yeah, Mark, apparently these two men met when they were teaching English in China a few years ago. So listeners, one of them is a guy called Christopher Berry, who it's alleged was recruited by a Chinese Communist Party operative code name Alex, who was working for an organization that was a front for the Chinese intelligence service.

Full transcript →

Use the links below to subscribe to the Hansard Society's Parliament Matters podcast on your preferred app, or search for 'Parliament Matters' on whichever podcasting service you use. If you are unable to find our podcast, please email us here.

Apple

YouTube Podcasts

Spotify

More ways to subscribe

Parliament Matters homepage

Latest / Highlights

News / Parliament Matters Bulletin: What’s coming up in Parliament this week? 12-16 January 2026

The result of the election for the next Lord Speaker will be announced. In the Commons, Government amendments addressing the “family farm tax” will be considered during Committee Stage of the Finance (No. 2) Bill. The Hillsborough Law is expected to complete its remaining stages in the Commons, and the Sentencing and the Diego Garcia Bills the same in the Lords. Peers will consider the assisted dying bill for a sixth day in Committee. MPs will debate an e-petition calling for a new general election, new towns, financial support during the pandemic, and the importance of the Arctic and High North. Select Committees will hear evidence from former OBR chair Richard Hughes on the UK’s fiscal framework, two Cabinet Ministers on AI and copyright, and the Housing and Courts Ministers on their responsibilities.

News / Are UK elections under threat? A conversation with the chair of the Electoral Commission, John Pullinger - Parliament Matters podcast, Episode 123

With the Government investigating allegations of foreign influence in British politics, we are joined by John Pullinger, Chair of the Electoral Commission, to take stock of the health and resilience of the UK’s electoral system. Our discussion ranges widely over the pressures facing elections and campaigning today, and what issues Parliament may need to grapple with in a future elections bill.

News / Is being Prime Minister an impossible job? - Parliament Matters podcast, Episode 121

Why do UK Prime Ministers seem to burn out so quickly? We are joined by historian Robert Saunders to examine why the role has become so punishing in recent years. From Brexit and COVID to fractured parties, rigid governing conventions and relentless media scrutiny, the discussion explores what has gone wrong – and what kind of leadership and political culture might be needed to make the job survivable again.

News / The King and Parliament: The relationship between politics and the royals - Parliament Matters podcast, Episode 122

In this episode we are joined by author and former royal correspondent Valentine Low to explore the evolving relationship between Downing Street and the Palace and why it matters for Parliament. Drawing on his book Power and the Palace, we explore how royal influence has shifted from Queen Victoria’s overt political interventions to Elizabeth II’s studied neutrality. Along the way, we connect historical episodes – where monarchs helped shape diplomacy and constitutional outcomes – to today’s flashpoints, from the prorogation and dissolution of Parliament to referendums and royal finances and the looming constitutional headaches of future hung parliaments.

News / Choosing a new Lord Speaker: Peers question candidates Lord Forsyth and Baroness Bull - Parliament Matters podcast, Episode 120

In this exclusive episode we bring you the full recording of the official hustings for the next Lord Speaker, held in the House of Lords and chaired by Hansard Society director and podcast co-host Ruth Fox. Peers question candidates Lord Forsyth and Baroness Bull on impartiality, self-regulation, public trust, governance and security, and the looming decisions on restoration and renewal – offering a rare insight into how the House chooses its presiding officer and the challenges facing Parliament at a critical moment.