Parliament’s spying scandal: Why was the China case dropped? - Parliament Matters podcast, Episode 110

News

Parliament’s spying scandal: Why was the China case dropped? - Parliament Matters podcast, Episode 110

17 Oct 2025

It’s been a tumultuous week in Westminster, with three ministerial statements on the China spying case and fresh questions about the collapse of charges against two alleged spies. We are joined by Cambridge public law expert Professor Mark Elliott to untangle the legal and political fallout, from espionage claims inside MPs’ offices to confusion over whether China was ever designated an “enemy state.” We also explore looming government challenges — the Budget, Afghan data leak, local election setbacks — and the membership of the new Select Committee to consider the assisted dying legislation in the House of Lords.

Please help us by completing our Listener Survey. It will only take a few minutes.

LISTEN

It’s been an extraordinary week in Westminster, with three separate ministerial statements to the Commons on the China spying case. To make sense of the confusion, Ruth and Mark are joined by Professor Mark Elliott, public law expert from Cambridge University, to unpack the sudden collapse of the prosecution against two alleged spies.

Newly released government witness statements revealed details about the claims of espionage inside MPs’ offices, yet the case was abruptly dropped amid tangled legal arguments over whether the Government had ever formally designated China as an “enemy state.”

So, what really happened? Was this a legal failure or a political fix to avoid a diplomatic crisis? And with the Joint Committee on the National Security Strategy now launching an inquiry, where does the story go next?

Plus, as the parliamentary season re-opens after the party conference break, Ruth and Mark look at the elephant traps ahead for the Government, including the Budget (Mark wonders why anyone in the Government thinks it is a good idea to “live-brainstorm” tax raising ideas), the lingering row over the Afghan data leak and superinjunction, the long-promised vote about the future of multi-billion pound restoration and renewal of Parliament and the steady drip of terrible local election results chipping away at Labour morale.

And finally, the latest developments on the assisted dying legislation which is now facing scrutiny by a special Lords select committee. We go through the membership and the balance of opinion on what could be a very important body. If the subsequent debates on the bill over-run, Ministers could face a legislative logjam in the Upper House.

← Back to Parliament Matters homepage

Listen on our YouTube channel (captioned)

Subscribe to our YouTube channel

Our guest

Professor Mark Elliott

Professor Mark Elliott

Mark is Professor of Public Law at the University of Cambridge and a Fellow of St Catharine’s College, Cambridge. He teaches and writes about constitutional and administrative law. He was Specialist Legal Adviser to the House of Lords Select Committee on the Constitution from 2015 to 2019, advising the committee on legal aspects of its inquiries and analysing the constitutional implications of public bills. He was Chair of the Cambridge Law Faculty from 2019 to 2024 and is a member of the Constitution Society’s UK Constitution Monitoring Group. He has written widely about many aspects of public and constitutional law, including as author of the popular but authoritative blog Public Law for Everyone and as author and co-author of many influential publications.

Resources

Professor Mark Elliott, Public Law for Everyone blog

“Cock-up or conspiracy? The Security Minister’s statement on the China espionage case”, 13 October 2025
"No winners in the China espionage blame game: Six outstanding questions for prosecutors and ministers", 16 October 2025

Transcript

Please note, this transcript is automatically generated. There may consequently be minor errors and the text is not formatted according to our style guide. If you wish to reference or cite the transcript copy below, please first check against the audio version above.

Intro: [00:00:00] You are listening to Parliament Matters, a Hansard Society production supported by the Joseph Rowntree Charitable Trust. Learn more at hansardsociety.org.uk/pm.

Ruth Fox: Welcome to Parliament Matters, the podcast about the institution at the heart of our democracy, Parliament itself. I'm Ruth Fox.

Mark D'Arcy: And I'm Mark D'Arcy. And coming up this week.

Ruth Fox: The strange case of the parliamentary spying charges that were abruptly dropped last month. Why? And what happens now?

Mark D'Arcy: What are the elephant traps ahead in the new parliamentary season?

They don't seem to need much camouflage for ministers to fall into them.

Ruth Fox: And is the assisted dying bill facing a legislative logjam?

Mark D'Arcy: But first, Parliament's got China on its mind this week with three ministerial statements in four days, including one by the Prime Minister. As [00:01:00] controversy rages over the abrupt dropping of those spying charges against two alleged Chinese agents, one of whom worked within the House of Commons.

Ruth Fox: Yeah, Mark, apparently these two men met when they were teaching English in China a few years ago. So listeners, one of them is a guy called Christopher Berry, who it's alleged was recruited by a Chinese Communist Party operative code name Alex, who was working for an organization that was a front for the Chinese intelligence service.

Full transcript →

Use the links below to subscribe to the Hansard Society's Parliament Matters podcast on your preferred app, or search for 'Parliament Matters' on whichever podcasting service you use. If you are unable to find our podcast, please email us here.

Apple

YouTube Podcasts

Spotify

More ways to subscribe

Parliament Matters homepage

Latest / Highlights

News / Parliament Matters Bulletin: What’s coming up in Parliament this week? 1-5 December 2025

The House of Commons enters the final two days of its Budget debate, culminating in votes on the Budget motions and presentation of the Finance Bill. The Treasury Committee hears from the OBR, IFS and Resolution Foundation. Peers also devote a full day’s debate to the Budget. The Foreign, Education and Wales Secretaries and Cabinet Office ministers face oral questions from MPs. In the Lords the assisted dying bill continues in Committee. The Sentencing Bill and Biodiversity Beyond National Jurisdiction Bill receive further Lords scrutiny. The Hillsborough Law begins clause-by-clause scrutiny in the Commons. West Midlands Police face Select Committee questions about their handling of the football match between Aston Villa and Maccabi Tel Aviv.

News / 101 resolutions and a Finance Bill. How the Budget becomes law - Parliament Matters podcast, Episode 117

It’s Budget week, so we look at what happens after the Chancellor sits down and how the days announcements are converted into the Finance Bill. We speak to Lord Ricketts, Chair of the European Affairs Committee, about whether Parliament is prepared to scrutinise the “dynamic alignment” with EU laws that may emerge from the Government’s reset with Brussels. And we explore the latest twists in the assisted dying bill story, where a marathon battle is looming in the New Year after the Government allocated 10 additional Friday sittings for its scrutiny. Please help us by completing our Listener Survey. It will only take a few minutes.

Publications / Budget 2025: Letter to Chief Whip Jonathan Reynolds MP calling for an ‘Amendment of the Law’ motion

The form of the first Ways and Means motion tabled after the Budget – either an Amendment of the Law motion or an Income Tax (Charge) motion – determines how much scope MPs have to propose amendments when the Budget is translated into the Finance Bill. An Amendment of the Law motion provides broader scope for amendment and was standard practice until it was unilaterally dropped by the then Government in 2017. We have written to the Chief Whip urging the restoration of this procedural practice so that MPs can properly fulfil their constitutional responsibility to scrutinise the nation’s finances and ensure that consideration of the Finance Bill is a genuinely political debate, not merely a technical exercise.

News / Is the House of Lords going slow on the assisted dying bill? - Parliament Matters podcast, Episode 116

In this episode we look at the latest Covid Inquiry report addressing the lack of parliamentary scrutiny during the pandemic and the need for a better system for emergency law-making. With the Budget approaching, we explore how the Commons Speaker, Sir Lindsay Hoyle MP, might discipline ministers who announce policies outside Parliament and why a little-known motion could restrict debate on the Finance Bill. Sir David Beamish assesses whether the flood of amendments to the assisted dying bill risks a filibuster and raises constitutional questions. Finally, we hear from Marsha de Cordova MP and Sandro Gozi MEP on their work to reset UK–EU relations through the Parliamentary Partnership Assembly. Please help us by completing our Listener Survey. It will only take a few minutes.

Blog / The assisted dying bill: Is the number of Lords amendments a parliamentary record?

The assisted dying bill has attracted an extraordinary number of amendments in the House of Lords, prompting questions about whether the volume is unprecedented. This blog examines how its amendment count compares with other bills in the current Session, and what the historical data shows about previous amendment-heavy legislation.